Sermon Tone Analysis

Summary of Rev. 12 study

The imagery of Revelation 12 is familiar to many Bible readers.

A woman with twelve stars around her head gives birth to the messiah child, after which that child is caught up to God and his throne, the response to which by Satan (the Dragon) is a spiritual war.

The astronomical elements of the vision were addressed two weeks ago.

Tonight, we focus on the relationship of various images, metaphors, and numbers to Revelation 11 along with the Old Testament contexts for all of those elements.

Who is the woman?

How should we understand the numbers?

How does this relate to the persecution of believers described earlier in Revelation?

How will these events play out?

Today we’re going to pick up essentially with Revelation 12:6, once we get past that imagery, and then tie this in with Revelation 11, I guess in terms of a strategy.

And we’re going to start in Revelation 12:6.

And I’m going to just summarize things, as the content of Revelation 12:6 and following sort of coincides with or works in tandem with Revelation 11.

And when we go through this long summary that I’m going to have here, then we’ll go back into Revelation 12, beginning in verse 6, and sort of drill down on a few particulars—a few specific things in the passage.

So Revelation 12:6 says:

6 and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which she is to be nourished for 1,260 days.

Two meetings ago, we talked about the context for a lot of these numbers.

And again, it was intentionally kind of mind-numbing because I want people to realize how complicated this is.

You know, these numbers have a meaning in their original context, which in this case, going back to the book of Daniel, where you get this 1260 or 3 ½ years and you get the 1290 and 1335 in Daniel.

So we talked about all these numbers and what calendar these numbers make sense in (the 360-day—specifically the Zadokite—calendar).

So we did all of that.

And along the way, I made the comment about the woman here in Revelation 12:6.

Because we’re trying to link the 1260 in Revelation 12 with some of the numerical language of Revelation 11.

And so we spent some time doing that in the last episode to show that these two passages operate in tandem, and so therefore they ought to be interpreted in light of each other.

Let one chapter assist us in interpreting the other chapter.

So the woman, I said in the last episode, was Israel.

I’m just going to go through sort of a running summary of a little bit from last week, tying it into Revelation 12, working through Revelation 12, and then we’ll drill down on specifics and provide some data or some evidence from the Old Testament for what you’re going to hear here.

People of God

So the woman, I said, was Israel.

And the 1260 days operates in tandem with the same number in Revelation 11:2 (that’s where it occurs).

And I suggested earlier

(in that last episode) that as Revelation 12:6 is really descriptive of the persecution of Israel (the people of God)… When I say “Israel,” think “people of God” here.

So Revelation 12:6, the woman, i.e., Israel (the people of God) flee into the wilderness.

Because Israel is the one who gives birth to the messiah.

We know this isn’t Mary because there’s no New Testament account of Mary being persecuted and having to run into the wilderness, okay?

So this is figurative for Israel (the people of God) under persecution, in the days following the birth, the death, the resurrection, and of course the ascension of Jesus.

So since it’s connected with Jesus, it’s not just broadly Israel (the people of God), but it’s going to sort of narrow to believers.

Now there’s a debate among scholars whether we ought to think of the woman as believing Jews plus Gentiles who are the seed of Abraham, according to Paul.

Again, Revelation is the last book here.

So we have sort of an accumulative theology built up before we even get to Revelation, so it’s fair to see Israel through the lens of some of these other books in the New Testament.

So there’s a debate whether the Israel here is the “true Israel” (ethnic Jew plus Gentile— everybody’s a follower of Jesus), or if we should sort of divide it up into ethnic

Jew just generally (regardless of whether they accept Jesus as messiah) plus the Church.

So let’s just set that aside for the moment.

We’re going to talk in broad language here.

Fleeing Language

So we have the woman fleeing after the birth and the death and the resurrection and ascension of Jesus, the child of Revelation 12, who is birthed in the chapter (Revelation 12) but also described as being “caught up to God and to his throne,” which is a reference to Jesus’ ascension (the ascension of the messiah).

So Revelation 11:2, on the other hand (that has this numerical language), that has the people of God symbolized both by the “temple” language and the two witnesses under persecution.

So what I’m suggesting is to look at Revelation 11:2 (like we did last time, we spent our time in Revelation 11)… We wonder, “Well, what’s the temple thing there, and the two witnesses?

What are they?”

I’m suggesting that if we link the number there to the number in Revelation 12, we find out that we should interpret these things symbolically, that the two witnesses are the people of God.

The temple also speaks of the people of God because the temple, which is his body (the body of Christ), which is the temple, which is us— all these New Testament threads tie in together.

So the point is that if you take Revelation 11:2 and 12:6 together, linked by the “1260 days” reference, then the following elements can sort of be listed and interpreted in tandem:

1) Temple courts being trampled by the Gentiles—that’s a reference to Gentile persecution of the people of God.

2) The two witnesses who oppose the Gentile trampling.They preach against it and ultimately succumb to their oppression, but are raised after three days.

So what’s up with that?

Again, you’ve got this… Essentially, you’ve got opposition to persecution.

And basically, the people of God who are under persecution are going to suffer under it, but they’re not going to be left for dead—that sort of thinking.

3) The woman who feels persecution, who is supernaturally rescued in language used to describe Israel’s supernatural rescue at the exodus is part of that.

So this notion about the two witnesses (the people of God) being raised up after three days, I‘m suggesting (again, this isn’t unique to me, this is in a lot of commentaries) that if we go over to Revelation 12 and we look at the woman and try to sort of align the messaging, what we get here is we have to notice that in the flight of the woman, the woman is supernaturally delivered.

And there’s actually a quote that we’ll see a little bit later from Exodus 19 that ties Revelation 12:6 (the flight of the woman) back to the exodus.

So you have a supernatural deliverance.

And that would make sense in the language of chapter 11 of the three days (the resurrection)—being snatched from death and alive.

Okay?

After Ascension

Now the wild card with all that, though, is John is writing post-Jesus, so he and his followers are, of course, included in the “Israel” imagery.

That’s pretty obvious.

The offspring of the woman (Israel) are “those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus” (Revelation 12:17).

So it’s very clearly followers of Jesus (the Church).

Now as I mentioned before, the question is, does that refer to the Church alone, composed of ethnic children of Abraham who believe in Jesus and Gentiles who believe in Jesus, who are theologically called the seed of Abraham elsewhere in the New Testament (like Galatians 3), or do we have a reference here to ethnic old covenant Jews and new covenant Jesus followers (like in separate groups)?

Again, that’s one of those things that scholars will wrangle over.

The first one makes more sense to me, that is, what we have here in the Israel imagery is the Church, composed of ethnic children of Abraham who believe in Jesus (they are believers) and then Gentiles who believe in Jesus (who are the spiritual seed of Abraham).

And the reason I think that one makes more sense is because of Revelation 12:10-11.

And I’ll just read that.

Revelation 12:10 says this:

It’s very clear referent to the inauguration of the kingdom of God triggered by the work of the messiah.

So if that’s the context for the Israel being persecuted here,it makes more sense (to me, anyway) to say these are followers of Jesus.

Because in verse 17, that’s what you’ve got.

The offspring of the woman are

“those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.”

Alright?

They are a new Israel, defined in New Testament terms.

It doesn’t negate Jewish presence in there.

It doesn’t negate an eschatological role for national Israel or anything like that.

I’ve beaten this drum repeatedly on this podcast.

I don't like any of the systems.

So I’ve said very plainly that I don't think supercessionism is the way to go.

I think it says too much.

I think it overstates the data.

The other side, I think, understates the data—the continuity here between, or the composition of the Church as a new Israel.

Not the new Israel, but a new Israel.

Because Israel ethnically… Paul did write Romans 9-11, okay?

He’s still concerned about his countrymen.

The same guy that said that Gentiles are now children of Abraham is still concerned for his ethnic brethren and their conversion and their destiny out there in the future—their reawakening after the fullness of the Gentiles is accomplished.

I mean, there’s still a destiny out here for national Israel of something.

Okay?

So that’s what I think’s going on with Revelation 11 and 12.

Timing issue is a big deal

Now the question is, when is this stuff that is being described going to happen, or did it happen?

And again, the timing issue is a big deal.

Because again, the systems that try to approach the book of Revelation are going to land somewhere on the “when” question.

And again, this is just me talking now, I think all the systems are a little bit too sure about their answer to the “when” question.