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If we have now been justified by his blood how much more shall we be saved from God's Wrath through him. There's a presbyterian committee on congregational song that met a few years ago ago to produce a new Hymnal and there was this much love it's much-loved relatively new song. It's called In Christ Alone by Keith Getty and Stuart Townsend. They were the writers of the words for that song and they wanted included in the new helmets Beautiful In Christ Alone who took on flash But they wanted to change this one line this this one line from the third stanza. There's a line that says till on that cross as Jesus died. The wrath of God was satisfied. I said could we just tweaked this? We'd love to change it instead to say till on the cross that Jesus died. The love of God was magnified better. Let's talk about love instead of Wrath. And so they went to the authors that this is not one of those hymns that's out in the public domain and so you can take it and use it and if you want to add app that you can this one has living authors and you have to go and request their permission if you're going to change what they wrote and so they go and they asked permission and Keith Getty and Stuart Townsend said, no, you can't do it. We we have rat there on purpose and said that Presbyterian committee took a vote and I voted 926 against it and in Christ alone isn't in the new Hymnal about 800 other songs, but they said we we just can't do this. We want to sing. I got to love magnified not God's Wrath satisfied.

I can understand. I can understand that committee. I can understand them because I often don't want to come and preach to you on wrath. I don't think we've ever titled a full sermon series The Wrath of God. I'm not sure how it would go. Put up signs. Come on Inn.

We're talking about wrath for the next 6 weeks.

I would much rather focus on God's love. And these seem in a lot of ways diametrically opposed. Why would we talk about a god of wrath? When what we believe in is a god of love? That's not something that we as 21st century Christians have finally just worked out. It's not like we were the first ones who said, you know, that's that's this Antiquated notion that surely Humanity has gotten Beyond now is actually a notion that was from the beginnings of Christianity people were saying do we really need to talk about the wrath of God doesn't that seem to be a bit out of step with how we understand our God so there's actually a really early Theologian who wrote about a group that had sprung up in the church and he said here's here's their belief that a better God has been discovered one who is neither offended nor angry nor inflicts punishment who has no fire warming up in hell and no outer Darkness wearing there is shuttering and gnashing of teeth. He is merely kind. That's the Theologian early church later tertullian, and he's writing about this other group that to be honest with you I can sympathize with no. Yeah, I got who's not offended or angry or inflicts punishment or a lot of times that I would just prefer to talk about this kind and loving God that group they followed a different leader. His name was marcion and he was considered a heretic in the early church because he said let's do away with the Old Testament. But let's not focus on this terribly different God. This guy who is full of Wrath. Let's instead folks on the god that we seeing Jesus who's full of love. And the early church. They said we just we can't do this. We can't dismiss the Old Testament. We can't dismiss some of these passages that that come in that talk about the God who does indeed have Wrath. There's a leader in the United Methodist Church who recently suggested a different reading of the Bible and it's actually a very appealing reading of the Bible to me. He said let's read. It's less Humane versus the calls for vengeance. For example in the light of its locked your versus the cost for love and mercy and compassion. Let's see God is a god of love and mercy and compassion and these other things that seem less Humane. Let's read them knowing first that God is love and mercy and compassion and some of these last Humane versus Shirley shouldn't apply in the same way. I suspect he didn't talk directly about God's Wrath or anger or indignation but I suspect I suspect he wouldn't count those among the loftier verses of the Bible are the ones that would suggest that God has anger and indignation and Wrath I think he'd matchbook much prefer to focus on Love & mercy and compassion. and I went to

There are some pieces of how the Old Testament use it that start to make things a bit better for me. I at least if I see things soon in the light that I would most like to the the god that we see showing wrath in the Old Testament. It's usually not toward an individual. It's not that someone gossiped and God says that's it you're done. Instead what we see is a god whose his wrath goes against tribes and Nations there the whole groups of people who have behaved so wickedly and have done such damage and harm to people among them and people Beyond them that God says you are acting against my purposes for for creation in God's good design for creation. It can't go on so long as these evil Empires continue to Terrain.

era, it begs us to ask we so often we we hear rap and we think of individuals but we see God's Wrath and we so often see corporate sort of guilt whole Community Cent makes us asking a whole society bear the burden of guilt who exactly Bears the burden of guilt when something some great Injustice has occurred who Who Bore the burden of guilt for the Holocaust Is it Hitler alone? Is it Hitler and his top officers the ones who who knew and we're actively involved how far down does it go? Does it does it go down to anyone who participated in the military regime anyone even if they didn't think it was best they went along with it. Does it go all the way down to any citizen anyone who did not forcefully stand up against how far down does it go? Who's implicated? And it it's kind of easy for me as an American Test those questions because the question never arrives at me, whatever it is it it stays over there and so I can keep asking how far down does the guilt go? And there are times that we can get pretty far down have everyone is implicated in some way if they were on that side. And so we we have this line that divides good and evil that would run between the axis and the Allies. There's our line. An evil regime and good regimes fighting back.

We are we can start to get a little closer to home. But at least a different. In time if we start to ask about antebellum America and slavery. Who Bears the burden of guilt?

Is it is it the slave owners? Is it the slave owner still Shirley new mate? Maybe some of them just didn't didn't quite know. I think that I hope I pray that our nation is at a point of pretty much full consensus that that is a terrible blight on our history that it was a terrible evil and acted within American history. And then the question is so so who Bears the burden of guilt how far down does it go all the way down to every citizen whether they were slave owner or not? Because they were there. Anyone who didn't fight back?

We can ask similar questions today about corporate guilt.

Guilt for participation in a corporation that knows its doing evil if there's a sneaker company that uses Sweatshop labor. and Racine The into Manatee of it how far down does the burden of guilt go? Is it the top Executives? Is it any employee? Is it any stockholder? Is it any consumer? Is it any American? He's not speaking up against how far down does the burden of guilt go and these then start to get very close to home as we say. Okay. Are we implicated in guilt even though I feel like I have an individual am innocent is there some way that I'm implicated in the guilt of some larger body that's not doing as it should end our desire My Desire at least I won't put this on you. My desire tends to be to implicate anyone who is evil Beyond The Pale. And I never tend to include me. There's always some line there is a and I would guess for most of you. There is an evil Beyond The Pale that you say that these people they bear guilt and Justice should come to them and at least for me that line always gets drawn on the other side of where I am. I pretty well always get drawn on the other side of where anyone I love is and even occasionally someone I love ends up across that line and I start asking questions to try to draw the line somewhere different because surely they can't end up over on the other side of it.

I think we all draw lines and they all tend to be somewhere far from where we are.

And you see that they're still wrath in the New Testament that God is not just a kind God who says all is. Okay. All is well do as you please and I think most of us acknowledging that somewhere there's a line while we we can celebrate that you can see the beginning of Romans. We heard this beautiful passage from later and Romans but starts in Romans 1 talking about the wrath of God in a way that I think the people would celebrate the people who are reading. This would be on God's side with Romans 1 the wrath of God is being revealed from Heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people who suppress the truth by their wickedness. There are wicked people out there and they are suppressing the truth. And God's Wrath is being revealed against them. Anda In in America in American corporations. This was brought to light when people said our tobacco corporations, they knew. They knew that this was killing people and and they had been convinced of it long before the American public heard and they received this truth and they said let's suppress this. This will not be good for the stockholder. It will not be good for our salaries and I suppressed it and people were rightly outraged when they found out you knew that you were killing people and you suppress the truth. This is wickedness.

They suppress the truth by their wickedness since what may be known about God is plain to them because God has made it plain to them.

And so there are wicked people somewhere out there and God's Wrath is being revealed against them and it goes on verse 28 says a bit more about these people furthermore just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God. So God gave them over to a depraved mind essentially says since they didn't want anything to do with God. They didn't want the truth that comes from God God gave them over to it so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness evil greed and depravity. They're full of Envy murder striped deceit and Malice their gossip Slanders got haters insolent arrogant and boastful they invent ways of doing evil. There's a group of people so wicked they are inventing ways of doing evil what new way can we find to do evil? They disobey their parents? They have no understanding no Fidelity No. Love No Mercy when you hear those you you may think of A person or group of people far near and you said they have no Fidelity No. Love No, Mercy. And when you think of them you think will surely God must do something. Those who invent ways of doing evil and show no mercy and no love this cannot stand for a good god, although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death. They not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. I would imagine at this point for readers. They are cheering God go get them get them. They know better and they're still doing it go do something about it. And then Paul. places dirty trick because he turns to chapter 2 and look what he says. You therefore have no excuse and the readers go white know this was about them. This was about the insolent those who show no love those who show no mercy. Why is he saying you you have no excuse you who pass judgment on someone else for it? Whatever point you judge another you are condemning yourself because you can pass judgment do the same things. Now we know that God's judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. So when you a mere human being passed judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgement? Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness forbearance and patience not realizing that God's kindness is intended to lead you to repentance. You see this interesting thing those early Christians. I wanted to God who was kind and what we find is Paul is writing about a god of kindness. Right alongside writing about a god of wrath.

Because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's Wrath when his righteous judgement will be revealed.

Paul starts by saying there are these Wicked people these Godless people in there's raft coming and you draw the line somewhere apart from yourself and you said get them and then Paul comes and says you You are on the other side of the line. I think it for forces us to ask the question that Jesus disciples asked him. Who then can be saved?

Romans 1 says there are wicked people and they're in danger Romans 2 says and it's you who then can be saved. And I Think Jesus answered his disciples isn't answer helpful inappropriate still for us. Here's how he answered them when they ask that. Jesus looked at them. I don't think it's incidental but it says he looked at them. And said with man, this is impossible. But With God all things are possible. A group of people says how can we be saved? If we're on the other side of the line? He said he can't move yourself. You can't move the line and you can't move yourself. This is impossible for you. It is only with God that all of these things are possible.

I think that's where Romans 5 comes in for us today. The passage fit champ read for us earlier Romans 5. Does he see it just the right time when we were still powerless Christ died for the ungodly.

When we were on the other side of the line. What can we do to be saved who can be saved? What's impossible for you? It's only possible for God Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely. Will anyone die for a righteous person go for a good person. Someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this while we were still sinners Christ died for us.

That's why we were still sinners now. Jesus tells his disciples and another place. He says greater love has no one than this that he gives his life for his friends hidden enemies greater love has no one than this because his life for his friends. That's something we're at least familiar with we we know of people who have literally given their lives for others Brother people they loved We know if people who figuratively devoted their lives to caring for someone else if they've given up their lives sacrificially for someone else. What we understand giving of lives for friends, but this notion of he died for us. He gave himself while we were enemies ungodly centers. Well that that that goes against even what would have been the popular teaching of the time there's a there's this book of ethical teachings by Jewish scribe. His name is Iraq that had come just a couple of hundred years earlier and here's what he writes which I think would have been rather common sentiment. It says give to The Devout but do not help The Sinner do good to the humble, but do not give the ungodly hold back their bread and do not give it to them for by means of it. They might subdue you this sounds like good practical advice, but the ungodly The Sinner the person who's Waging War against you don't feed them and help them. You'll make them stronger.

Then you will receive twice as much evil for all the good you've done to them for the most high also hates Sinners and will inflict punishment on the ungodly. Give to the one who is good, but do not help The Sinner. I think this would have been popular understanding don't help the sinner. But the interesting thing in our text here is that it doesn't tell us that God hates the sinner.

the interesting thing here is that Christ gave himself not just for friends, but for enemies What is God's Wrath toward then? If it's not toward even his enemies.

I want to suggest you that God's Wrath is toward everything that is against us.

For God to be for us and for our Salvation God must be against all that is against our Salvation that God has created us for dignity and wholeness and fullness in him. And that means that anything that would attack our Humanity in full God is against we we can understand this especially with some parenting metaphors. If you've ever heard a mother called a mama bear, what does it mean? She is protecting her young against anything that may come to do them harm. And so long as she is being wise about wind to protect and how to protect we say that is a good thing. We need some Mama bears in this world. We need people who will protect their young and what we see from God is a God who said I will protect my children and when evil comes against them when anything that desires to harm them and strip away dignity in life comes against them. You will see my wrath

Because I desire health and wholeness for them.

so Romans 5 verse 9

since we have now been justified by his blood how much more shall we be saved from God's Wrath through Christ for if while we were God's enemies we were reconciled to him through the death of his son how much more having been reconciled shall we be saved through his life? What does it suggesting is that God wants for us. Not just Mercy not just you made it through your sins have been forgiven that what our God wants for us is life.

wholeness

and if our God loves us, it means that our God must also have a certain hatred. He must hate anything that seeks to deprive us of life. He must.

Romans 12:9 later on

Paul says to these people love must be sincere. How can you talk about love and hate in the same verse?

Well because we hate what is evil and we cling to what is good. There's there's hating and there's clinging here and in God's love for us. God hates evil and God has made a way that we should not cling to evil. The wrath of God isn't something that we have to figure out for a loving God. I don't think we have to figure out where wrath fits. I think that wrath is the other side of the coin. That is God's love wrath is an aspect of God's love because he hates Whatever is against his beloved children.

He hates whatever is against all of his created humanity. And so I would suggest to that the Methodist Pastor the one who talked about reading the last Humane versus based on the loftier once I would actually like to suggest to him that. The verses that are about God's Wrath are some of the most Humane verses in the Bible and I recognize that that's not clear on the surface.

But I think that we have to affirm those as verses where God says, I hate everything that tries to strip you of life and dignity and Humanity.

God's Wrath is a part of God's Humane treatment of us. Incident this brings us a new question if if Christ died for us even while we were Sinners even while we were his enemies and if God is for us who can be against us then who then can be condemned we started with can anyone then be saved and and now we say who can be a who can be condemned. Makes me really want to be a Universalist. Who could be condemned if Christ says you can't read draw the line that I can.

But we can't quite get to universalism. At least the Bible doesn't.

I want to see test you that it's not God's up and opposition to us. But our opposition to God that has always been the problem. It has never been a problem of us trying to overcome God's opposition to us.

That what happened at the cross was Christ trying to overcome our opposition to God. There's this question about what we will cling to. Did the disciples when they asked who then can be saved they did it after Jesus had this conversation with a rich young man. And he has his conversation with the Rich Young Man where he says You must give up your possessions sell all your possessions and give to the poor and you can have eternal life and the young man walks away sad and there's the implication that he can't do it. What will he clean to? At the end of the story. He's clinging to his possessions as me. He can't let go of them.

And in that passage just after it. Jesus talks to his disciples about things that they've left Matthew 19. It's comforting them when they said well, how can we be saved? And he said well, it's only possible with God and everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. We have these strange sayings of Jesus where he tells people if you don't hate your mother and father, you can't enter my kingdom and a very poor reading and interpretation of that would be for all of you to go out the doors and shut off all of your ties with any of your closest family. This is not what Jesus getting after and I think we can pretty quickly start to recognize that so what in the world is he mean What does it mean when he says if you don't hate your father and mother? If you want give away all your possessions.

If you want leave house or field does he mean?

If there is anything that you are going to clean to rather than the cross.

I can take you away from God's Kingdom. We often asked this question or would you be willing to die for your face? And it sounds like this big procon question. Would you be willing to give up your life? I would even suggest you that. I think it's far too easy a question. I think it'd be easier for me to answer. Yes. I'm willing to die for my face. Then. It would be for me to instead answer am I willing to give up everything and yet keep on living? are there things that I can't live without and I willing to let go we saying nothing in my hand. I bring simply to thy cross I cling. Are we willing to clean only to Christ cross and deny ourselves anything else?

CS Lewis in His Brilliant wrote book great divorce. If you have not read the great divorce. I just don't know what you're doing with your life. That's a little strong give you think you could take. My meeting will read it this afternoon, right? And in the great divorce, he presents this group of people who are not consigned to hell because God has said you belong over there and you're not allowed in and said he present this group of people who can't come into the kingdom because they're clinging to something else and when they come to the kingdom of God, he says that that is not a part of my kingdom and I say this is not part of your kingdom. I'm not coming in. It's not because he excludes them from the kingdom. He desperately loves them. But they are clinging to something that is not allowed in the Kingdom.

And so they exclude themselves from it because rather than clinging to the Cross they must cling to this other thing.

I'll ask you. Is there anything you cling to?

Good first way of asking it might be to ask if there's anything that's in the darkness in your life. scripture says that I the people that people loved Darkness rather than God's light. Is there anything in darkness in your life that needs to be brought to light? If it were brought to light, let it be brought to light and could it be affirmed as yes this this should be a part of God's kingdom or know this you're clinging to something that has no place. And we need to deal with this. What happened at the cross? Here's a piece of what happened at the cross since Adam. Humanity has been created in the image of God and we have celebrated that Humanity has for all of time been created good in the image of God, but also sin has been attached to humanity bound to humanity in a way that what what is humanity inherently what we are created in the image of God and we are bound to send and then Christ comes in full Humanity the Holy One the good and perfect one and at the cross he is wrapped in sin and evil and Injustice and sin and evil and Injustice do what they do. They take and destroy life. But in the cross we see this Collision of God's perfect Holiness in humanity. consent perfect wickedness and his life overcome sin. And so life destroys sin.

And I suggest to you that it no longer means to be human to say created good and bound to sin. But in Christ we can say here's true Humanity. Created good, and God's Wrath has come against sin because it seeks to destroy and kill and it has been ripped away from Humanity Our God rips in an evil and Injustice away from Humanity. What does it mean to be human? Not to be like Adam but to be like Christ. And so we we have this metaphor that's used in the church often about D-Day and v-day that says the cross is like a d day. At D-Day in World War II the Allies. They took the beach heads and it was on this day that we knew the Allies are going to come out victorious in the evil empire is not going to continue to rain we knew that it was happening. And this is what happens at the cross sin and Humanity are ripped apart from each other so that these are not forever bound but we also know that the struggle continues and that there's a v-day coming or these will be separated for all of eternity. And we celebrate that Christ has taken the beachhead and he's reclaimed humanity and there's a risk of taking an analogy too far, but I want to take this one one step further because I think our minds we already go there. Where are we in this analogy? Where are we in the D-Day invasion a analogy? I think I often for us where where they are with Christ on that beachhead. We are storming the shores and we're saying yes Christ will be Victorious and we are on his side some of us instead. We think ourselves back home and we're receiving the good news. They took the beachhead. We are now a Sheard victory.

Where does Paul put us in this analogy? Crazy thing is that Paul puts us as the enemy armies. Says we were the ones fighting against Christ when he showed up. And he shows up there not to overcome and destroy us but to rescue us. He shows up there and he is moving through this territory and telling us now to drop our weapons in joining his procession. We are not simply the friends who are cheering him on. We are the enemies and it comes and says I'm not here to destroy you. I'm here to tell you to lay down your weapons and they cling to me instead. Join me in triumphal procession.

That's really been something for me. Spinbot easier to see myself as one of the allies. Then to say that I was the one standing against Christ and he's come to save me even me. Let me invite you to pray with me.

Our Holy Ghost. Thank you for your great. Love. We thank you for your RAF against anything that would seek to harm and destroy us and our life and our dignity in argumentative and we thank you for your great love for us. And we pray that we as a people would know you're calling on our lives would know anything that it is we cling to that must be let go off and we pray that we would clean.

Brian are you leading a great driver sleeping in our time of prayer?

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